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Pytanie Luban station planning

Ivanek

Nowy użytkownik
#1
Dear All,

i am not that good with the polish language but i hope i have posted this to the right box.

I am planning to build a scaled 1:160 model of the station Luban as it existed sometime around 1940. This is to capture the old German electric traffic between Zgorzelec and Jelenia Góra. I have collected a fair amount of pictures and documentation from various time periods but I am still missing the time 1946-1981. This was the time when the station Lauban only allowed for diesel traffic but the old German masts were still there.

I am also building the locomotive repair shop that was located next to the station.

Could you please help me either with any plans, pictures, documents that sow any building, or other equipment on the station, depot and the repair shop or could you pint me to the best place I could find something?

I have also visited the Archive in the Wrozlaw and Luban but they do not have anything. Apparently all old German railway documents were transfer to Warschau archive after the war.

Thank you very much


Regards Ivan
 

OLF

Aktywny użytkownik
#2
i am not that good with the polish language but i hope i have posted this to the right box.
Hi Ivan, you are in the right place, welcome to the forum!

I have collected a fair amount of pictures and documentation from various time periods but I am still missing the time 1946-1981.
Not only you: strict secrecy and security rules in communist Poland prohibited taking photographs of railway infrastructure on one hand and on the other similar rules, together with lack of recognition of historical value made official railway documents from this period to have been destroyed. With a bit of luck you'll find single pictures taken by the Western (mostly German or British) tourists surfacing. That should not bother you if you're focusing on WWII period though.
I assume you've already seen rbd-breslau.de and zackenbahn.de for inspiration

I am also building the locomotive repair shop that was located next to the station.
Kasper, Klaus Christian: Das Reichsbahn-Ausbesserungswerk Lauban i/Schlesien

Could you please help me either with any plans, pictures, documents that sow any building, or other equipment on the station, depot and the repair shop or could you pint me to the best place I could find something?
station plan 1993
pictures Jelenia Góra - Lubań
pictures Lubań - Zgorzelec
stacja Lubań
Baza Kolejowa (galeria)

I have also visited the Archive in the Wrozlaw and Luban but they do not have anything. Apparently all old German railway documents were transfer to Warschau archive after the war.
They have something, but not a lot and it is spread all over the archives. You can also try in Jelenia Góra, as only part of documents is delegated to Lubań and some (especially regarding planning and architecture) are there.

Good luck!
 

teigrekty2

Znany użytkownik
#3
Hey Ivan, you have picked an absolutely fascinating subject, but also one that is difficult to research.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...FjAAegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw3NrmR_Ztg0T_NpPCF3BU6v
This should help a little. I myself was born and raised not far away from Lubań. Of course being a railfan, i've found the station and locomotive repair shops extremely interesting. Back in the 1980s i have already started to recognize most locomotives. Locomotive repair facilities were at that time separated from the station by a typical concrete fence/wall, that you can still find in Poland in many industrial places. Because of that it was difficult to see what's going on, unless one was inside a passenger coach. However from the side of the parking lot, there was quite an opening for workers to come in from the station area. Through that opening i once saw an EL2 electric locomotive sitting in the transfer table area. EL2s are german built "crocodiles" (as Polish like to call them), build in the 1950s by LEW. So i know that they were receiving repairs in Lubań. Most locomotives present in the shops at that time were ET21 electrics. Tracks closest to the fence, which i've mentioned before, were lined up with them. Every time an electric was going to Lubań at that time, it had to be towed by a diesel from Jelenia Góra. That' how i saw an EU07 one time being towed by ST43 diesel through Stara Kamienica (not far from Jelenia Góra). There was also a two axle dark green wan coupled to EU07, called "Brankard"-polish for crew wagon. After 1986 second electrification, it was much easier to get an electric to the facilities. Station tracks were very busy at that time. Once waiting for my train with my grandma, i was lucky enough to witness a pair of Ty2 steam locomotives on a heavy stone train come through the station. A third Ty2 was pushing in the back, what a site! Train was coming from near by quarry, from direction of Leśna and was headed towards Węgliniec. Hope some of that was interesting, regards.
Maciek
 
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Ivanek

Nowy użytkownik
#4
Hi guys,

thank you very much for the answers rand the encouragement. yes, it is a "big" job and on top i want to do a real scale (1:160 not N gauge) model, meaning i have to do all the track, houses and everything from scratch. So far i have collected quit a few pictures, documents and books about Luban (i also have this book: Das Reichsbahn-Ausbesserungswerk Lauban i/Schlesien) and i will try to set up a web here: http://railmodels.eu/en/projects/schlesische-gebirgsbahn/ shiowing thebuliding progress and all the pics i have colelcted
just do not have the time to write it.

Couple of more question:
Was the ban to take photographs also after 1989? The RAW as well as the station has been unchanged until about 1995 -2000 and even picture form this time would help. the only difference is that the original overhead line masts were removed by the PKP electrification (in 1986). Looking at some pictures from RAW from the time after 2000 one can see that the buildings are disappearing every year. I was in Luban in 2014, 2016 and now even the building at the station are gonne (the goods shed, the small building next to the turntable,...).

Are there any ex-workers from the RAW Luban that could potentially have some pictures. I could write the local newspaper to put an add in asking for help. Would that work? Or asking the present companies for plans. Some of the buildings in the RAW have been repaired and as such there shall be documentation i.e. plans based on the original dimensions. That could for example help?

Thank you

regards Ivan
 

teigrekty2

Znany użytkownik
#5
I am presently residing in the United States, so i get to see the complex maybe once a year. I didn't get to see it in 2016, when i was in Poland. From what i've read on the internet, there was a group being formed in Lubań dedicated to preserving some of the buildings of the complex. I'm not sure what came out of it, but i can research about it. It is obvious that the local authorities have either no clue, or no appreciation for what they have in the city. The best way to explore is what you have done, walk through it. Last time i was there was in 2014. Small business owners located in these buildings, seem friendly enough if you can strike a conversation. You might still run into a character with a "crazy communist" mentality though, as i have. He was not working there though, i'm guessing he was some sort of "higher society" guest, but i have stood my ground and that usually drives them away. Some railfans go as far as actualy measuring the buildings and making detailed schetches of them, in additiom to taking hundreds of photos. I have done my research this way several times, as it helps to get details in your head. Even after 1989 there was a bad attitude to be witnessed, when taking pictures of railroad in Poland in general. That unfortunately drove many railfans away and there is still a great shortage of pictures from that time. Oficialy there was no ban after that, but the communists have done their job brain washing peoples minds.
 
#6
Hi Ivan.

Lubań is my family town and I stay in close touch with it, so it was really, really nice to me to see that you've chosen it for your project.

Assuming your current huge knowledge about the station and the railway repair works, you'll probably be not able to get much more information from the Internet. So the question is: do the original plans of the works with dimensions and so on exist or are they gone? If they exist, where are they? In Lubań, in Wrocław, in Warszawa or maybe in Berlin?

Are you really sure that the works looked like in 1940 very similar to how they looked like until 1989? They were destroyed in 70% during the battle of Luban in 1945 and then about 70% of equipment was taken away by Russians just after the WW2. So were the works rebuilt by new Polish owners according to their pre-war design?

Anyway, in case you aren't able to get to precise information you need, I'm afraid you'll have to use your imagination instead.

Where you can try to get some info:

a) a community of former Lauban area inhabitans and their descendants who currently live in Germany; maybe someone of them knows what happend to all the railway works documentation?
www.heimatarchiv-lauban.de

b) a group dreaming of bringing the huge round-house back to life:
https://www.facebook.com/StaraParowozownia

Some nice aerial photos from there:
probably 1997:
https://www.facebook.com/StaraParow...6358660073571/882039275172173/?type=3&theater

probably 2005:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=759838367417926&set=p.759838367417926&type=3&theater

c) a group devoted to the repair works
https://www.facebook.com/ZNTK-Lubań-116282385121053/
however you'll find a lot of stuff on how some other industrial sites in Poland are being destroyed or restored and some stuff regarding the history of the town itself; there is not much about the repair works, however you have a chance to catch some of its former workers there.

I will keep thinking how to help you and in the meantime please have a look at how the station and the works area looked like on various town plans from ~1940 to ~2000.

1940_a.gif 1940_b.gif 1980.gif 1990.gif 2000.gif
 
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Ivanek

Nowy użytkownik
#8
Hi Hydrus,

first of all thank you for the post.

In terms of the original plans - Something has to exist. There was a book RAW Luban (which i have - http://www.dumjahn.de/dumjahn/0015029.html) with the track plans from various times even with a small track re-design work from 1939. I have been to Lubań and Wrocław archive and they do not have anything. I have not checked the Berlin technical museum yet (was living there for 5 years but ....) and in Wrocław i was told that after the war all documentation from Wrocław was moved to Warszawa. So that may be a place to go.

The workshave not changed much from what it was before the war. Of cource, the details have changed but these are too small for the 1:160 scale anyway and one can "simulate" the life at that time. Buldings and the proportions are important. I think 2 buildings were destroyed and never rebuilt. The most damage has actually happend in last 10 years were about 70% of what was left (considering the entire station) has been removed. I was 2x in Luban - 2015 and 2017 and about 5 buildings are gone just within these 2 years.
OK, will ping you on the PM

Thanks a lot

regards Ivan
 
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